Your Game Pass hot takes have been something else. Your comment doesn't take into account quality, frequency, or any other factor in determining value. All you care about is "day 1 first party releases." It's like you care more about the idea of day 1 games than the reality.
yeah looking at MS' current release schedule.. yeah no, even starfield looks barebone as it is, and Halo franchise looks like it's 1 iteration away from becoming a free-to-play BS.
"Your comment doesn't take into account quality, frequency, or any other factor in determining value"
Gamepass has all of the factors you´d pointed out + day one releases for first/third party games + EA Access + reward points + cloud gaming + PC Gamepass and more.
Gamepass will also add game demos with no additional cost via Project Moorcroft in 2023.
No sure if it´s Sony idea is to compete with Gamepass directly, but if that´s the reason they created the new PS Plus, they have a lot to improve.
"I would much rather pay $60 for a fully featured Halo, then what happened to Halo Infinite."
Sony didn´t needed a Gamepass to sell a bare bones Tlou 2 without Factions and people paid full $60 for it on PS4. And still no Factions 2 after more than 2 years.
Now they´re asking atrocious $70 for another bare bones Tlou which seems to be nothing but Tlou Remake coated in Tlou 2´s skin stripped out of Factions. And yes, ND found time to make all of this before Factions 2 which they promised us to be released day one with Tlou 2.
If the original Factions is anything to go by, be prepared for more Pay To Win BS.
And don´t even get me started on GT7, MTX and Always Online bs.
You see? It´s easy for Sony to F* UP gamers without resort to some Gamepass clone.
"Gamepass has all of the factors you´d pointed out + day one releases for first/third party games + EA Access + reward points + cloud gaming + PC Gamepass and more."
Enough with the advertisements disguised as responses. The only one of those things you mentioned that pertain to Jin's comment and my response is the day one first party releases.
My issue was with the comment only attributing "real value" to "day 1 first party releases." I could have said some things about Xbox's first party output to date in making that point. I limited my critique to the comment. Please don't latch onto mine to push something extra.
The narrative that game pass = less quality needs to stop.
Halo Infinite had both time and money. The state of the game isn't down to game pass but rather that the developers have shown time and time again that they are incompetent. It really is that simple.
Man why do Xbox fanboys always come off as if they're a defenseless girl in an abusive relationship, and they don't have the strength to let themselves recognize reality and get themselves into a better situation.
Like, if obscure is such a simp for such mediocrity, I bet he'd kill himself if Xbox ever became competent enough to release good games regularly. Ffs he needed 2 solid years with the attempt that was Halo before starfield has it's chance, because he's on the geezer schedule Ms prescribed to him 2 console generations ago 🤣
@Raul Yes, day 1 games are a huge advantage. Because with Playstation Plus premium you are paying for backwards compatibility since a lot of the games are from previous generations. But, with GP for example we got to play both MLB the show day 1 for no extra charge and PS owners had to pay $70.. That is a huge advantage over PlayStation Plus premium. Just think of all the money we save on new games .
Which is ironic as they stopped releasing those but they said it enough in that presentation so it’s still happening, eventually 🤷🏻♂️🤦 🏻♂️🤣😜& #129396;
@obscure ………………. You know what your usual fail troll comment isn’t even worth responding to. Sony don’t need to bribe gamer with “free day 1first party games (2-3 a year if lucky) to buy into a service of poor quality games like halo infinity and games that take YEARS to be playable (that pirate game ). Sony games are some of the highest quality games in the industry. You get what you pay for. It’s ok to have a service and compare them but you should also compare the quality as well but that’s not going to happen here as they’re not even in the same planet let alone zip code just look at halo 1 year after release with a year delay and still missing features thats been day 1 since the first game like split screen but hey it’s “free” 🤷🏿
"Gamepass has more quality games as well. Like MLB The Show"
Let me again point out that my comment was restricted to Jin only attributing real value to Day 1 first party releases, so I don't know why you replied to me with that and mentioned The Show of all games. Actually, I do, but I can't name a thing, so let me lay out some facts instead.
Results of a Google search of this website for your name and The Show only shows you talking about The Show in any capacity after it was announced for Game Pass. There were no results showing you talked about The Show before that. However, I invite you to provide evidence from your comment history where you have talked favorably about The Show when it was a PS exclusive.
Those results did provide evidence of you highlighting that "Project Scarlett" has hardware ray tracing while spreading false doubts that PS5 is capable of it.
The results also included this comment of yours talking about PS Now doing day and date, from 1,189 days ago, on an article about Detroit, Heavy Rain, and Beyond going to PC.
"Xbox had the right idea, like always. Sony is following them in their footsteps. Just like how they will be releasing all 1st party on PSnow day and date sooner or later."
The results also produced this more recent take talking about the new PS+ tiers from 74 days ago.
"Not having day 1 1st party games is an L. But not even OLD 1st party games are on there. Like Last of Us Part 2 is still not on it and they're not on it permanently. That's the biggest L imo.
"If they were more reliable/consistent with 1st party releases and communicated as to when they'll be on it then it wouldn't be so bad.
"Then there's also the lack of AAA 3rd party games and even indie games barely show up on it.
I'm not going to comment on those facts. They don't need me to speak for them. What I will say is that it seems exposure to a new audience may have resulted in an increased appreciation for The Show. I can't say that I've ever so much as played a demo of it. I'm not a baseball person, but that's okay. What I like about the PS library is that it has a variety of games like that to appeal to many tastes. I believe if exposed to a broader audience, many of them would be called out as quality games by those such as you who get a chance to experience them on your preferred console.
I have not switched to premium (or extra) so Im still on essential but I can say that I pretty much have all the old PS games I want. Plus the means to play them. So its more about convenience than selection.
GP offers me the ability to play games I dont have and if I like what I play... I buy them. Ive done that a few times already. So GP isnt about convenience as mush as premium but about new experiences and potential sales.
For someone like my son (who didnt grow up with PS) premium is perfect as he can play many great titles from the past. He has his own digital 5 and plus and is probably switching to premium but has not decided. He keeps asking me if I have this game or that game, and I usually do. I tell him he can borrow my systems and games but I think he rather play on his 5.
Yeah and Game Pass is better there as well lmao. I agree that the idea of more games or Day 1 releases are highly inaccurate to the overall sub, but just in terms of quality releases, Game Pass's library blows PS Plus premiums in the water
There isn't a single game on gamepass that can even touch Horizon forbidden west.... As for Xbox defenders bragging about BC, all I have to say is I'm glad y'all are enjoying old games from the past because frankly, the furthest I care to go back to is the ps4 era since I still have a lot to catch up on and the enhancements on the ps5(more so the 60fps) makes them a lot more enjoyable!
"The company that only has four AAA exclusives on the market is doing so much better because our games are available day one on gamepass! Who cares if one of those four games is still incomplete and riddled with microtransactions!"
"Enjoy your slippery slope on AAA games dropping big on quality all to accommodate your precious game pass."
Quality? I look at the quaity of a crossgen game iike GT7 and it´s atrocious MTX costing $70 vs a true current gen Forza Motorsport that will cost $60 or "free" day one on Gamepass, and I think I´m good.
Obscure_observer I am not particularly good at racing games at least realistic ones like gran turismo but I do enjoy them to a point. I have over 100 cars to date on that game including a number that cost serval million credits each. The intake credit rewards are more than sufficient to get the cars. My friends who play it more than me and are far better have a considerable number of the cars and millions of credits in the bank so to speak. They have alot of the moat expensive cars. None of us paid a penny for any of our credits. The game has been designed qhonestly I'd argue the credits to buy a car cost so much as a disincentive to buy them using real money.
Forward does look good but you I'd bet they'll charge for cars added post launch whereas on gt they are added for free. Also forza horizon and forza are the only first party games on games pass that look like they are particularly good (oh and redfall. So the xbox one x/s has been put for two years and majority of games pass titles worth owning have literally all been 3rd party and even then most if then are games that the publishers have doubts about or that haven't done all that well. Don't get me wrong gamespass is good value for money atm but I don't think it's good for the AAA games industry.
@obscure you don't need to buy the MTX. You can earn that MTX by playing for an hour or two. Are you forgetting FH5 has paid DLC to unlock cars? At least you GT you can earn every single car in the game spending nothing. And have you played Forza Motorsport to form that opinionof how good it is? GT7 looked the dogs balls in the shots before release too.
Sad thing is they now justify bad and mediocre games with the excuse "Who cares? it's free in gamepass." The xbox fans are destroying there own brand and they just dont see it yet.
So does that mean that GP is trash this year? Since you only play day one first party releases? PS plus has tons of first party games.. just downloaded GOT and im sure its just as good and high quality as when it came out.
I think that quality is the most important aspect of any service.
Im sure you can see the value in GP even now without first party day one games this year. You really sound silly at this point. It I only played what I could day one I would be missing out on hundreds of games.
As i state in my comment i personally think plus has more good games by a boatload. Day 1 doesnt bother me. To be honest i hardly ever play day 1 games anymore because most are riddled with bugs and whatnot. I just finished arkham knight this afternoon before work. So eh on the day 1 stuff. It is cool to a point but hit or miss alot of times.
You could buy those 2 releases on sale cheaper than subbing for the year too. Lol. Just wait for Black Friday and you own then instead of paying to just play them.
nah the actual game is the real value, and looking at MS' current release schedule it's somehow still pretty barebones even with all their studio acquisitions..
I could see great value if Microsoft was releasing 5 or 6 First Party games every year day one on Game Pass but they'll never be able to do this. Microsoft releases a First Party game so infrequently its a moot point to bring up when talking about Game Pass and what you have left is mostly little Indy games that no one would even think about without this service.
Doesn't have to be first party to add value. I can't wait for Warhammer Darktide and have been sinking way too many hours into Crusader Kings 3. Neither is first part. Both day 1 games that add real value. TMNT Shredders Revenge just launched into GamePass and its a 10/10 for me, and I don't have to buy it for $25.
Stray (which is day 1) will problably be better than most Xbox games released lately. Shadow Warrior 3 might not be the greatest game but lots of fun, and was also day 1 release. I think we'll see more day 1 releases from third party.
Whenever Microsoft actually start releasing first party games, GPU will be a great value, but as of right now, the first party games haven't been the best and that many in count.
Which gamepass doesn’t even have as Microsoft aren’t releasing games, starfield is next year so you got a forza a flight sim and a half arsed halo that’s still not finished 🙄🤦🏻♂️ 🤣🤷🏻♂️ 2023/24 the whole games launching day1 big seller but when they’ve stopped releasing games 🤷🏻♂️🤣
Speak for yourself. I buy 99% of my games on sale after release and PS+ Extra is still a better deal for me. Also worth noting that PS+ Extra and Premium cost less per year than GamePass Ultimate. There is direct value in saving money.
The stupid narrative of GP lowering game quality only started being said on here after Sony declared that that is what would happen to THEM, not MS.
MS pockets are deep and can invest in the long game. There are so many quality titles in GP it's ridiculous. From great first-party games to everything else is included. GoW series Doom 2016 Doom: Eternal Forza H5 Psychonauts 2 Flight Sim Hollow Knight Ori 1-2 Guardians of the Galaxy Halo :MC collection & Halo Infinite NBA 2k MLB: The show HellBlade A plague tale Wolfeistien series SoT Fifa22 All the Yakuza games B4B Wasteland series Dishonored series The Evil within Dead Cells Shredders revenge
and so many more, that's not even 1/2 the quality titles What quality are we talking about here? I just listed AAA, AA, and excellent indie games. I'm not even comparing it to PS++, but this stupid no quality games narrative needs to end.
I was actually quite surprised how good Guardians of the galaxy was. I really had a great time playing it. But my best game that I have played via gamepads that I would never have played if not for it is Remnant from the ashes. That game is too damn good.
This is an argument that is very subjective. As a current subscriber of ultimate there are handful of games I am playing
And most of those are from 360 days. Backwards compatibility for me (key word being for me) is a much bigger feature as of right now than day 1 releases
I have tried playing halo infinite MP and the battle pass crap is all over the place and in your face. MS should start releasing full games and their expansions should also come to GP. In most cases we get vanilla version of the game on GP
As far as PSN plus goes TBH I haven't been a subscriber in a very long time and don't plan to. Sony could do backwards compatibility for free if they wanted but instead it's behind a paywall
Conclusion:
Sony doesn't feel the heat with world wide lead of 5 million and console selling out almost instantly
Xbox comes across as gamer friendly but keep in mind their image had taken a huge hit since 360 days. So they are in image repair stage. As of now they seem more gamers friendly than PlayStation and I hope they continues
Biggest issue I have is with Xbox fanboys who are praising Phil on social media like he hasn't done anything negative. I was simply amazed and astonished when I read the comments for Phil. No wonder why he feels like Xbox is delivering
And as far as PlayStation fanboys go please don't defend Sony for their practices either. They are one of the driving forces behind the $70 price tag
Praise where a brand deserves it not because we like it or something. Real competition will only begin when Xbox starts releasing exclusives on regular basis
I care about having my money respected. Gamepass doesn't do that. And gamepass ultimate sure as hell doesn't come close to doing that in it's current state.
Ps subscriptions are still shite because subscriptions are inherently that. But if i had to choose I'd definitely go with the service that I know will.give me top quality games. I mean right now it's has higher rated 1st party games on the service than gamepass ultimate. AND it's cheaper!
Ps now was cheaper than game pass and it seems nothing has changed.
@obscure
You're forgetting that you have to pay for gamepads ultimate for online play. And also to get those monthly offerings that are a joke to even talk about.
Also gamepass is more expensive than ps essential and ps extra. It's at the price point of ps premium which gives those gametrails you speak of + streaming capabilities.
Didn't like tlou2 but it is a fully developed and fleshed out singleplayer experience....much more than I can say for the crappy halo infinite campaign. Worth the money on quality alone.
I agree about tlou part 1 and I'd go further since you're wrong about them spending much time. The essence of the game was already done so clearly they don't need much resources for the unnecessary remake. And yes 70 is quite a bit for that. But you make it seem like they haven't released ghosts of Tsushima, returnal and ratchet and clank. All high quality awesome titles. Oh and horizon forbidden west.
"But if i had to choose I'd definitely go with the service that I know will.give me top quality games."
The argument changes and is now back tracked. I thought the Sony fanbase doesn't play old games? Comparing the two service's Gamepass puts much newer games on the service.
You realize the AAA games that you'd have to play by your logic is Halo and Forza H5 right? These services are made worth it by letting you play games you normally wouldn't buy. In other words, you're full of it.
It's still getting on its feet but, yeah, a little lackluster. Trials are nice, but that should be offered on any platform, and Xbox is already working on their own. Not to mention it's really easy to refund digital game on Xbox. All the legacy games are good but, again, Xbox allows you to easily emulate everything offered without a monthly paywall and the emulation is just better than what Sony is offering right now.
It's a solid offering for those only on Playstation, but it isn't going toe-to-toe with gamepass.
I think people think “day one” means they get all new games on gamepass. Fact is, “day one first party” equates to about two games per year.
I prefer to get full fleshed out proper quality first party AAA releases that only appear on the service over time, with the option to play trials of said games to make sure I like before I buy or decide to wait until released on streaming. That is PS Plus Premium. I like this model more.
There are way more than 2 new day one games that launch per year in GamePass, lol. Xbox was metacritics publisher of the year last year, so it seems like quality is there too.
Compared to where they are now, GamePass is the better service. MS has had 5 years of experience building the service up, so unless Sony copied everything they were doing in GP into PS+ and added more, then GP was going to be the better of the two. That being said PS+ as a new service has launched in a pretty good state overall to their credit as well. The only real "issue" with the new PS+ tiers is that PS3 games are still streaming only (which we knew), PS1/PS2/and PSP emulation is BARE BONES (but so is original Xbox), EA Play isn't included currently (kind of weird when Ubi+ is, sounds like money hatting), and the bonus features like Day 1 3rd party, consistent quantity/quality games, and widespread GameTrails aren't proven benefits yet because it's only been a couple of weeks. This is a conversation for the end of the year when GameTrails are in every AAA game, we see how consistent the rollout is for new games added every month, and how the service grows.
What makes GamePass the better service is it just does more whether for the console, or across various platforms. GamePass has Day 1 first-party (maybe not this year), sometimes gets A - AA 3rd party games Day 1 (Back4Blood, Outriders, etc...), has several games launch each month into the service, everything can be played natively on console or PC, EA Play, Ubisoft+, PC compatibility, and Xcloud for mobile/TVs/and older XBO consoles.
Now, Sony with PS+ doesn't have the same goal as MS with GamePass, so the extra benefits GP has like Day 1 first party is a tad irrelevant in comparison (it's a win for MS, but it doesn't mean it's an L for Sony since their games are selling). MS wants you to subscribe to subscriptions with or without a console in an effort to "reach the 3 billion gamers of the world", Sony wants you to invest in the PS ecosystem and hopefully grow the limited 100m - 150m PS owners out there towards 200m.
You like the model because you prefer playstation. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm going to stay subbed to +Premium for now to catch up on some things I missed, but I'm not sure it'll hold my interest if we're not getting new titles added. Same problem I had with psNow.
Between PC and XSX, I'm not going to complain about the games they've added in the last year w/GPU. I saved too much $ for that.
Day one 1st party isn't great this year, but day one also includes 3rd party and indies. If all you want to play is brand new 1st party, then I guess you should just wait a bit.
But PSPlus also gives you (or we have to see) day one 3rd party. The issue I have is that people talk about this gamepass “day one first party” as if they are getting a ton of games. Some people even think they are getting all games day one, not realizing that it equates to about what? 2, 3 games per year ( at least so far). I simply want my AAA to be quality, Im willing to pay for them or wait and get them streaming or cheap if i want to.
Yeah, people aren't the brightest at times. Generally, I'm still of the mindset that "some" day 1s is better than "none."
I've got too many alternatives available, which makes the prospect of paying $70 for most titles rather unappealing.
Big 1st party titles steal the headlines, but if Sony gave me day one titles like Warhammer TW3, TMNT, The Show, I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about their model.
You like what you like, though. PS+ Premium is a decent model, imo.
Overall, 2022 is rough for XB 1st party. As Dusk Falls, Pentement, and Grounded are all I can name. So, I understand wanting to pause or wait to sub to GP.
However, last year netted me Psychonauts, AoE4, Horizon 5, and Halo. I would have paid full price for all 4.
As we just saw, FM, Redfall, and Starfield kick off 2023, too. Those would be potential buys for me, too.
This "1-2 games" and the "quality" PR speak from Sony doesn't make sense to me when I see what GP is actually providing, though.
Its a solid offering even if you have all the systems. I got switch xbox one ps4 ps5. I see more games im going to play on plus then i did on gamepass. Edge of eternity is the last day 1 game i played on it. Day one is cool and all but not even close to the hype some online have made it out to be.
Eh. Sort of. Sony still found a way to sell backwards compatibility back to people, as far as I see it.
The lack of BC on Playstation has been questioned since it was pulled early in the PS3's lifecycle. Now it's 2022 and they're trying to give it back as a service. Yes you can download these games, but that still requires you to repurchase games you might already own. I own a bunch of PS1 and PS2 games, but I never cared to repurchase them digitally since I started using emulators. So to actually have them again natively on Playstation I still need to either, A, repurchase my whole catalogue or, B, sign up for the service.
That definitely doesn't compare to what Xbox is doing where I can just pop in the disc and just play the game with whatever enhancements may have been introduced internally.
Plus has games that Gamepass doesn't have, though. A lot of the 3rd party stuff that matters, is also on PS Plus. You know, you don't have to write puff pieces for Gamepass, and use that as a reason to put a competing service down when you don't really know how it's preforming.
And, what does it matter if games are day one, if they're not games that really make any kind of impact? Games don't lose their quality or fun factor because you don't get them on a sub service day one. What kind of thinking is that?
But if you're a loyal customer you'll have realised the vast majority of games have already been on ps now for many years or been ps+ games in the past.
The new additions are great but they would be since they're launching a new service but as mentioned above, the frequency with which quality titles are added is what will determine whether it's a gamepass competitor or not. If it's similar to the quality of new additions ps now had, its not going to keep up with game pass.
Also much cheaper....i find it funny that when talking about getting free games from a not free monthly subscription people fail to point out the obvious price difference.
@Spartacus Mathematically speaking, if sony releases more first party games than Xbox, then sony will be putting more first party games on their service, full stop (Would be vise versa if there was even a chance of Xbox keeping up sooner than 2025.) Whether they're day 1 or not, they'll be added to the service within about a year ish. Talking long term here, Sony will be winning quantity year after year until ms finally starts pumping out games next gen
The second hit piece pending approval comparing two services that are not the same. One company sells millions of their high quality games after release and not needing to put their games on their service day one. Then, puts them in their service later as an option to play and service perk.
The other offers day one subsidized releases, never posts sales numbers, some come in a an unfinished state where you wait for updates stringing you along as you pay monthly or yearly for it to get better.
The article writer downplays Sony's service by saying it's filled with old trash games, that are still fun to play as another man's treasure, as filler beside high quality bangers from Sony. As if game pass isn't filled with old games as filler for Microsoft's day one releases.
It's the dead horse being beaten and beaten with absolutely nothing new to gain other than a game pass user writing an article saying Sony should push for more day one releases when services are not the same when Sony sells games. He acknowledges that they shouldn't be the same but you know he's asking for the same option from Sony anyway. Basically running us in circles.
The interesting part is that Nintendo is never asked to give away their games day one on their service when we all know Nintendo sells millions of their games like Sony does. But no articles.
The funny thing is Nintendo actually did address questions about Game Pass during an interview in 2020. Their position was much the same as Sony's if less direct than Sony's more recent comments on Day 1 releases.
"The way I look at it is, we want to offer consumers choices on Nintendo Switch, and obviously, the ability to buy the games and play the games that they choose to play. The fact that we have well over an 8.0 attach rate to every Switch unit that’s been installed over the last four years is an indication that consumers want to consume content that way."
Take Two was more direct in preferring the Playstation model over Game Pass.
"Our scepticism has been around making frontline console products available day and date with subscription. That doesn't make any sense to us, because economically speaking, we don't think consumers are prepared to pay for that. And we can't afford to turn our business upside down in a way that doesn't make sense economically. There always has to be an intersection between what the consumer wants and what the publisher is able to do. And you know, it doesn't make sense to do that for our properties. That's our opinion, and I think Sony agrees with us, because it said so."
There seems to be this contingent of believers or individuals working for the competition, in that Sony should cut into their profits to subsidize day one releases. Profits that help them create new IPs, sequels, excellent DLC for those high quality games, bringing new 2nd and 3rd party games to the platform and risk taking like PSVR.
Knowing that Sony can't subsidize at the level of Microsoft who can spend 70 billion a lot easier while taking away games or profiting on multiplatform releases.
They think we can't see what's being pushed to hurt Sony's bottom line over time.
@ApocalypseShadow The basic assumption is that Sony are smart enough to make agreements where Devs will be paid according to the content consumed by the subscriber and these fees wouldn't exceed the revenue generated from each subscription.... You know a bit like how every other streaming service works.
People who think Sony would make a loss are fixated on their original ps+ agreement where Sony pay for a set number of games per month. It's an inferior model that costs Sony more money and gives consumers fewer games to choose from.
People aren't trying to run sonys profits down, but people with your opinion are driving down the value consumers get.
Sony's games that sell 10 million, 15 million, 20 million, would be releasing on their service for next to nothing per month to play them. You're expecting Sony to drop sales in favor of hoping they get enough subscribers to pay monthly. So, drop the money they are making right now for something that's not guaranteed? Don't be ridiculous.
In your scenario, as there's no money coming in from sales as PlayStation gamers would be playing those games for nothing. They won't be buying. That's why Microsoft doesn't post sales numbers. Sony would have no choice but to cut corners if they don't get enough subscribers. That's hurting their bottom line. That could translate into less 1st Party games from each studio, cutting down the cost to make their games or dropping risk taking like VR.
You're not fooling us with that Netflix bullshit. Sony would be losing money like Netflix was and is right now. And what is Netflix doing? They are cancelling shows and asking for more money by killing the sharing of accounts. We're aware of what happens way before you do just like paying for online was something we told everyone years ago and you wouldn't listen.
@Spartacus. "You know, a bit like every other streaming service works" Are you a part of reality? Do you think the content creators have benefited greatly from these streaming contacts? Bruh.. business 101, these contracts are made to benefit the contract holder. Just look at Netflix and Spotify right now. You should go to school for a bit before telling people you understand this stuff.
The obvious question for your argument is why is Sony opposed to doing it if they wouldn't lose any money? Why is Nintendo sticking with their model if the Xbox model wouldn't lose them money? You do realize that the only home console makers to win a generation since the 3rd gen began in 1983 are Nintendo and Playstation? Do you think it's possible they have a better understanding of how to succeed in that space than the console maker who has yet to win a gen after 20 years despite the ridiculous amount of wealth at its disposal?
Take Two said "we can't afford to turn our business upside down in a way that doesn't make sense economically." That's the Game Pass model they're saying they can't AFFORD to turn their business UPSIDE DOWN pursuing because it "DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ECONOMICALLY." This is what one of the only two companies to reign atop the home console market for almost 40 years is supposed to abandon their proven business model to emulate?
"People who think Sony would make a loss are fixated on their original ps+ agreement where Sony pay for a set number of games per month."
Nonsense. Where did you get that from? Certainly not me, whose post you're replying on. I didn't get that from ApocalypseShadow.
"The basic assumption is that Sony are smart enough to make agreements where Devs will be paid according to the content consumed by the subscriber and these fees wouldn't exceed the revenue generated from each subscription.... You know a bit like how every other streaming service works."
In addition to what Apocalypse already covered...
1) Many of the biggest movies (and smaller movies) still release in theaters before moving to a streaming service. The pandemic necessitated an exception, but things have been returning to the norm with movies releasing exclusively in theaters. This is also true for movie studios with their own subscription service. The Batman made its theater money before going to HBO Max. Doctor Strange is exclusive to theaters before it moves to Disney +.
2) There is a significant gap between Day 1 movie prices and Day 1 game prices. The monthly price for the highest tier of Game Pass** is slightly less than that for the middle (standard) tier of Netflix and $5 less than Netflix's top tier. The normal price range for a movie ticket or a 4K physical copy of a movie would be considered budget price for a video game. I looked at AMC showings to prove the point. The matinee price to see Top Gun at one of AMC's laser theaters is $9.99. That's 6 or 7 times less the typical cost of a AAA release. Video games have to make up a lot more ground shifting to day 1 subs than movies.
** $9.99 of that is for Gold. More on that below.
3) Subscription sales would cannibalize other revenue streams. GPU is $14.99 a month. $9.99 of that is the cost of the already existent Gold sub. Xbox is only making $5 additional dollars for each GPU sub who already had Gold or would have subscribed to Gold if they didn't get GPU.
Don't forget licensing fees. That revenue gets cannibalized too. The platform holder (PS, Xbox) doesn't just take a hit on the licensing fees they would have received from sales of 3rd party software. They have to pay 3rd parties to put software on their sub. They go from being paid for allowing software on their platform to paying for it to be there.
Agreed Raul. But what's even more beyond his comprehension of Sony's position is the long term projections he can't see with Sony trying to compete with Microsoft's loss leading to gain market share model.
Number one company that makes money in the game industry: Tencent. Number two: Sony. Number 3 after billions in buyouts: Microsoft. Tencent doesn't have a game console. So, we eliminate them from the discussion.
Sony in the number 2 position in profits, now chases Microsoft who's in 3rd, in trying to build up their streaming services. Which, will cut into their profits from selling games at launch by doing day one. We know if Sony doesn't get enough subscribers, they have to make cuts, reduce game quality because of funding, cancel some content creation, stop taking risks and possibly raise prices and push mtx in games. And, they have to compete in getting content for their platform from 3rd parties..
Microsoft, as we have seen with them spending billions buying up publishers, would also be competing for content. Microsoft has more money to buy up exclusives for their service than Sony. Microsoft also has one of the largest server platforms in the world behind companies like Google and IBM. Sony has no servers at that level. So, Microsoft wins on content purchasing and servers to stream the content or offer downloads.
Conclusion: Sony after losing profits trying to keep up with Microsoft's spending in services, now moves into the 3rd position behind Microsoft. Because that would be the result. But Spartacus is only worried about short term nonsense about value because he would be able to play Sony's games for next to nothing. And doesn't seem to care about Sony being profitable that allows them to provide high quality games like they have been doing for over 25 years. Spartacus seems selfish and entitled. And I'm not even a business major. Just a whole lot of common sense where I can see probabilities ahead of time. Either he knows this or is purposely being ignorant of long term effects.
The hit pieces are getting old real fast. I personally think plus has better games on it. There was a a bunch i was looking through making mental notes about getting into.
Sony's goal currently isn't for plus to be the main way you consume their content, just an option, unlike what Microsoft is hoping for GamePass. You have to take that into account.
Even Netflix gets Day 1 movies and shows. PS Plus would then be more like Blu-Ray/DVD, gotta wait for it to have its run at the box office. But PS Plus does get day ones, but some movies are also released on Blu-Ray DVD Day 1 and they wouldn't exactly be box office successes..
Exactly, watching the MS/Bethesda Showcase the amount of times I heard the words GP it came across to me as if the Series S/X is useless without it? They also excluded there buying Physical/Digital customers as if they did not care about them. Its the same with the Twitch/Youtube influencers also promoting everything GP as if every Xbox gamer has GP. I was like what has a NON GP Xbox gamer actually had to play games wise in the current gen timeframe of 18 Months ? Forza and Flight sim? what has the xbox gamer had to play if they dont like racing games or sim games like flight sim? NOTHING really of any mention.
I don’t understand your point. Every game on Game Pass can be purchased without the need to subscribe to Game Pass. “What has a non GP Xbox gamer had to play”? The exact same games as a GP member. They’d just be spending a lot more money.
The reason GP is promoted as if every Xbox gamer has GP, is because it’s such an incredibly good deal that it would be insane not to have it. Even in a slow year like this, the value proposition is very high with all the third party games coming day one. But next year and moving forward as all of Microsoft’s acquired studios start releasing games day one on GP? I can say with quite a lot of confidence there has NEVER been a better deal in gaming. Never.
Until Microsoft starts hiking the price or we see that games are declining in quality directly because of Game Pass, I believe it will remain the most popular subscription service in gaming. Well… at least outside of N4G. Unless Sony starts releasing their games day one on Plus, then Microsoft would actually have a fight on their hands.
Yeah they can bang this day1 all they want but when they’ve barely released any and nothing major planned for the rest of this year quite redundant really, we launch our games day1 on gamepass. Might wanna actually release some then 🙄🤦🏻♂️ 🤣🤷🏻♂️
I wonder which of the following studio will have more money to create their next game.
A. Studio that sell their game at $60/70. B. Studio that put their game Day 1 on a service that you can sign up a 3 months trials for with $1, and that $1 is split by all studios MS owns, so maybe that studio gets $0.05 if they are lucky?
In the long run, Studio A will easily have 10 times more money to create their new games.
I am getting old, I would much rather play an actually good game, then 10 so so one.
Netflix model is a good example, they have been going for quantity over quality, like how MS thinks the more studios their own, the more likely some of those games would be good enough to keep people paying for the game pass.
And Halo Infinite is another example, you get the SP with gamepass (with stripped features, like co-op is an after thought), but MP they had to make it free with battle pass crap, otherwise they can't make up for the money they spent on making the game.
Competing with Gamepass is like seeing who would lose more money in the long run.
Only entitled gamers would rather studios they love earning less, and eventually get closed down.
That logic typically would apply. But in this scenario xbox has daddy microsoft footing the bill. Until the ceo sees fit it seems xbox has a blank check to do what they want. Whether they can actually manage all the studios and keep quality high is another thing
But eventually investors will want a return so in the long run games pass is going to have to get alot more expensive in order to be worth them pursuing...
I guess this is why everything is so expensive these days. People literally asking not to get stuff on a good deal, worrying about the millions that billion dollar organisations may lose. Smh
Short sightedness is why everything is so expensive. Morons live in the now without understanding the long term. Cash in on the "$1 for 3 months!!" Over and over and tell me, where's the money coming from that's supposed to pay these devs? We'll need that answer in a form that doesn't include "Daddy Ms will foot the bill for all of time, taking a loss forever because they're just so nice"
@ venomcarnage89 You're incorrectly assuming: 1) That I think MS will foot the bill "all the time" 2) That the devs are not getting their wages, or are in danger of not getting their wages. 3) That you deserve an explanation as to how, and what proportion of the money spent by consumers on any given company ends up going towards the HR budget.
My point is simply that MS are footing the bill from their own will and choice. Theres no need to feel guilty about getting a good deal from them like the "$1 for 3 months" when you know that devs are still getting paid what they contractually agreed to.
New or old games, gamepass is the service. Today im gonna play some classics like morrowind goty 4k and 60fps with hdr. I never subscribe to psn premium i have all kind of shit like 3 streaming services, youtube plus and music, gamepass ultimate, psplus. But psplus premium is too much even for me
So you have PS Plus and all your other services yet an extra £5 is too much a month for premium? I would sack off the waste of space Youtube Premium BS if I was you.
The new PS Plus tiers are way better than when GP 1st launched, infact PS Plus has way more actual AAA titles on there now compared to GP. Also I get the impression the next year sites like this will have some nonsense BS everyday regarding GP and the PS Plus war PMSL.
"PlayStation Plus Premium Shows How Hard It Is To Compete With Game Pass"
Yet GP/Xbox has NOT had anything of AAA quality apart from Forza and Flight Sim in 18 Months of current gen ? Yet playstation gamers have had Sackboy, HFW,GT7, Returnal, Ratchet, SMM, DS etc so far.
I dont care what anyone says. I think ps plus is the better service. I have both. Last DAY one they brag about all the time that i was interested in was edge of eternity. As far as games themselves between gamepass and ps plus. Ps plus hands down. I think the have a better variety. Gamepass does have some good ones on there but i just feel ps plus has more good ones. Some of those good ones are on both services also. Just quickly fallout 4 comes to mind.
Even with "day and date" on gamepass. You cant ignore the 1st party games sony has put on the service. Almost all the exclusives are there specficially the big ones god of war, ghost of tsushima directors cut, death stranding dc, returnal, both spiderman games, horizon zero dawn, days gone etc. Those games alone can go toe to toe with any service. Ntm the other games from 3rd party and games like shadow of the collosus, last guardian.
The only gamers that think PSPlus is better than Gamepass are on this website. Fanboys really don't comprehend anything that doesn't fit their misinformed narrative.
These articles will always be dumb, if all you have is plus like me then gamepass simply doest exist making the comparison useless. Games are games whether they're day 1 or not. I haven't played Guardians until now on premium so it's like day 1 to me, lol. Wait until plus starts showing higher subscriptions than gamepass then the copium in these articles will go through the roof.
Game pass needs to put some next gen purely single player games on it before I can say whether my membership was worth it. As of now, very few AAA single player games have been released on it. I mean they didn't even release the Skyrim anniversary edition on it.
If GP was so great and profitable. Why don't all aaa games release on it? Why didn't Elden Ring Release on it? Or Dying Light 2?
Why did FromSoftware decided to sell elden ring on release and go on to sell 14+ million copies? Surely if GP was so great and profitable why didn't they release it on GP also? Was they scared they wouldn't of made as much money or something?
Exactly this. These companies know full well that devaluing their products by 'giving them away' on Gamepass leads in only one direction, a complete lack of sales and a lack of profits to sustain development of their next project.
Of course they also acknowledge that giving away Elden Ring, for example, would lead to gamers not buying any of their games in the future either as their will be an expectation that they will also be given away for nothing.
Publishers and developers know about the risk of devaluing their games, you can already see the entitled attitude of many Gamespass subscribers who crow about not paying for a game. How often have you seen the sentence in N4G comments sections along the lines of "oooooh, I really wanted to play 'game X', now its coming to Gamepass I will try it' or how about "that game looks great, I hope it comes to Gamespass"?
Nah, you got it backwards. MS received such a huge spank last gen that they had no other choice but to come up with a new gimmick. The service is 6 yrs old and it hasn't turned anything in their favor, still last place in everything. They need to try harder.
Dont know what you feel the need to constantly rag on everything Microsoft all the time always. People get it, Aloy. You like Sony.
Xbox is in the best position it has been... ever. They've made a lot of positive changes as a platform and it's showing in customer interest and positive word of mouth.
You make it seem like PS5 is some juggernaut whose shadow Xbox is hiding in this gen and that's not the case. Both companies are pushing a lot of consoles. Whoever ends up selling more this gen it will probably be by a small number.
And the only people who will actually care are the fanboys. Xbox is making bank. Playstation is making bank. That's all the companies care about.
While fanboys fight over a few more consoles sold a month here and there, or how one exclusive got two more points on metacritic than the other exclusive, the heads of these companies are all sharing drinks and jokes at the same events as each other.
This console fanboy tribalism will always come off as highly juvenile to me.
I've been working on a sheet that helps me see what's offered as I have both services. Seems the filter doesn't work if you ain't downloading it yourself, but feel free to check it out.
Gamepass??....That 6 yr old service that hasn't turned any tables for xbox? Still last place AROUND THE GLOBE in all major key points, the one with half the PS+ userbase despite the easy to abuse $1 offers? The one that still isn't making them a profit? The one that could really damage gaming in the long term? That one? And like always, the biased journos have it backwards, it's Gamepass/xbox the ones that need to compete and try much harder at that. Getting a bronze medal every time just won't cut it.
All of these Microsoft PR pieces fail to mention that PS+ Extra and Premium are cheaper than GamePass Ultimate. $100 / year compared to $180 per year. Not an insignificant amount.
Plus there are more games too. Just look at MrNinosan's spreadsheet and there's more content only on Plus versus content only on Gamepass and its not even close.
All I'll say is that gamepass by itself doesn't give you online. Gamepass ultimate is required to get the game catalog plus the online with crappy offerings.
Ps plus essential still is better value at a fraction of the ultimate cost. In terms of accessing online play.
Ps plus extra is less than 9$ a month for both online, better monthly games, ps plus collection and catalogue of games.
Ps plus premium is about 10$ a month which is still cheaper than game pass ultimate. This gives you the same as extra plus the steaming and classic games.
So all in all...PlayStation service is much better value because day one 1st party is useless without quality 1st party. The overall substantially cheaper price is hard to ignore. Especially since Xbox is still hanging on to the promise of waiting till next year.
The GP suck up is beyond ridiculous. The only advantage GP has is that Microsoft games will always be there Day 1 for free. To this day, those gams have been nothing to brag about. Maybe it will change when Bethesda and Activision games are on there, but right now Microsoft produces hardly anything worthwhile outside their same tired franchises.
However if you simply compare the games on each service at this point in time... it is not even comparable. Plus Premium crushes GPU.
"No PS5 games" Assassin’s Creed Valhalla Assetto Corsa Competizione Balan Wonderworld Control: Ultimate Edition Cris Tales Death Stranding: Director’s Cut Demon’s Souls Destruction AllStars Evil Genius 2 World Domination Foreclosed Ghost of Tsushima: Director’s Cut Ghostrunner Greedfall Human Fall Flat I Am Dead Kona Last Stop Lawn Mowing Simulator Maneater Marvel’s Guardians Of The Galaxy Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales Monster Truck Championship Mortal Kombat 11 MXGP 2021 NBA 2K22 Observer: System Redux Override 2: Super Mech League Returnal RIDE 4 Saints Row: The Third Remastered Tennis World Tour 2 The Artful Escape Tour de France 2021 Warhammer: Chaosbane – Slayer Edition Werewolf: The Apocalypse – Earthblood WRC 10 FIA World Rally Championship Wreckfest Wytchwood
"Day 1 releases" Stray has already been announced Day 1.
The writer opens by saying that XBOX has had much more time to get GamePass right so why not wait until after PS Plus Extra/Premium has been out for a while before writing an article like this.
Also I think Sony would too have day one indies if they had the funds to do it. When it comes to $$$ to spend MS will always have an advantage.
To be fair, Sony had a premium service with Now a good while before Gamepass was even an idea, and they handled it poorly to the point they killed it off and are now calling everything just Playstation Plus again.
IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS. TWO FUCKING WEEKS. Check back in in a year or two and THEN thrash the service, but comparing a service that's only been around TWO WEEKS to one that's been around FIVE YEARS is the definition of pedantic idiocy.
I own both PS+ P and Game Pass Ultimate, I'm sorry but Quality over Quantity, I enjoy them both but PS+P seems to have more Quality while I will say I was going to buy TMNT Shredder's Revenge but was happy to find out it made it's way onto Game Pass.
Bottom line is gamers will go where their choice of games are. Nintendo, Sony, and MS offer different experiences for their online services, yet journalists keep fueling fanboy wars for clicks, laughs, and hype.
It's almost as if MS bought up studios just to keep the competition limited; not to make better experiences, but just to keep certain games from appearing elsewhere. When Nintendo and Sony buy up someone, those buyouts make sense; MS is buying just to say they have something.
And before someone argues Bungie, Destiny 1 and 2 sold better on PS and PC than it did Xbox.
The new PS Plus tiers are pretty great, even moreso for new PS5 owners. Most early adopters already own all of the games that make the sub worth the price. Gamepass is significantly better in this regard once the new games come out. Its not just 1st party, there are a TON of games that come out Day 1 that re not 1st party! Hell, even Sony's OWN MLB The Show has come to GP DAY 1 the last 2 years, yet is not even on the PS Plus roster at all. Its really no comparison in that regard.
GP has been around longer and its obvious that MS is dumping tons of resources into it that Sony just doesnt want to compete in that specific area. It does not take away how good the new PS Plus tiers are though, they are great in their own right and there are plenty of Gems on there, especially for new owners. People downplaying the quality of GP are either biased or clueless. Its not limiting the quality of the games, thats a false narrative. All the games on there are also available for sale, so I dont buy that garbage narrative. Forza Horizon 5 as part of GP is still 10x better than $70 Gran Turismo 7 and the MT is way worse in GT7, so there goes that narrative too.
Lmao, get real if Sony releases all their 1st party-award-winning-goty-conte nder titles in their service (never gonna happen) there won't be any competition at all, that will embarrass xbox/gamepass even more. Be careful what you wish for.
I had game pass and cancelled it because it hasn't had any day one games (third or first party) I've cared about since the Series X launched. Getting a game like Guardians of the Galaxy (my type of game) is great, but it came months after I'd already bought and played it. I'd need big AAA third party games along with first party games day one for the service to be of use. While first party games day one is cool, in the next 12 months, Starfield is the only confirmed title from Xbox I'll want to play. That's just not enough first party content I care about to bother signing up again. Maybe in a few years when their output is better? But even then, they'll have to be games I'm actually interested in (which rules out the majority of Xbox IPs and anything from Activision).
Having said that, I'm not signing up for the new PS+ either past the base tier I already have. No day one first party games and likely big third party stuff well after I've already bought/played it.
Both services in their current state are of no use to me at all.
Xboys gonna brag again about day one release? nothings change.. As a said over and over again no matter what the quality and quantity of ps+ not unless they also do day one release just like gamepass in the eyes eyes of xboys ps=auto lose, hell even ps+ do day one release they gonna find fault at it.
Plus Premium is like Netflix making sure you pay for the seasons before they release(and they don't even say when the first party will come to the service to get you to sub and stay subbed) lol Netflix releases their stuff as it comes out from their studios, it's actually THE NORM in subscription services which own parts of their development pipeline.
Gotta love people thinking it's not and saying they WANT to pay for the games, while ALSO subbing to a overly priced back compat library. Yeah keep touting the line for ol' corporate there folks. 👍
Sony’s First party games show how hard it is to make great exclusives. Sony isn’t directly competing with Gamepass , sure in some indirect way it’s an option somewhat similar to gamepass but MS needs Gamepass to succeed no matter what period . Sony has PS plus Extra and Premium to fund more games and profit but it doesn’t need to become their number one revenue stream because they sell 5-10 million copies of their biggest games and have other million plus sellers on top of the biggest sellers .
They can sell lots of software where MS was struggling selling a million+ copies of their biggest games . None of them were hitting 10million or even close or Gamepass wouldn’t exist .
If it’s not got day 1 fist party releases I could care less. That’s where the real value comes into play.
It's still getting on its feet but, yeah, a little lackluster. Trials are nice, but that should be offered on any platform, and Xbox is already working on their own. Not to mention it's really easy to refund digital game on Xbox.
All the legacy games are good but, again, Xbox allows you to easily emulate everything offered without a monthly paywall and the emulation is just better than what Sony is offering right now.
It's a solid offering for those only on Playstation, but it isn't going toe-to-toe with gamepass.
Plus has games that Gamepass doesn't have, though. A lot of the 3rd party stuff that matters, is also on PS Plus. You know, you don't have to write puff pieces for Gamepass, and use that as a reason to put a competing service down when you don't really know how it's preforming.
And, what does it matter if games are day one, if they're not games that really make any kind of impact? Games don't lose their quality or fun factor because you don't get them on a sub service day one. What kind of thinking is that?
The second hit piece pending approval comparing two services that are not the same. One company sells millions of their high quality games after release and not needing to put their games on their service day one. Then, puts them in their service later as an option to play and service perk.
The other offers day one subsidized releases, never posts sales numbers, some come in a an unfinished state where you wait for updates stringing you along as you pay monthly or yearly for it to get better.
The article writer downplays Sony's service by saying it's filled with old trash games, that are still fun to play as another man's treasure, as filler beside high quality bangers from Sony. As if game pass isn't filled with old games as filler for Microsoft's day one releases.
It's the dead horse being beaten and beaten with absolutely nothing new to gain other than a game pass user writing an article saying Sony should push for more day one releases when services are not the same when Sony sells games. He acknowledges that they shouldn't be the same but you know he's asking for the same option from Sony anyway. Basically running us in circles.
The interesting part is that Nintendo is never asked to give away their games day one on their service when we all know Nintendo sells millions of their games like Sony does. But no articles.
Sony's goal currently isn't for plus to be the main way you consume their content, just an option, unlike what Microsoft is hoping for GamePass. You have to take that into account.